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Grosse Pointe Farms Council Defers Flood Questions Until Thursday Meeting
The city is asking residents to send in any questions they have before Thursday's meeting so the questions can be researched and more complete answers can be given at the meeting.
Trash lined the streets in the inland district of Grosse Pointe Farms this weekend as residents cleaned out their basements after the combined sewer system backed up into their homes following power outages by DTE to the pump station.
Clare Pfeiffer Ramsey
Photos (4)
Photos
Despite setting a special informational meeting for Thursday for residents whose homes flooded this past weekend for the second time in a matter of months, more than 20 attended the regularly scheduled Grosse Pointe Farms council meeting.
Their message was clear and unified: Determine and fix the problem.
Mayor James Farquhar and the council members told the unsettled crowd they would take note of their questions and have answers on Thursday. Answering questions Monday, Farquhar said, would be premature as officials are still investigating exactly what happened.
The exchange became somewhat heated at times when at least one resident had a lengthy list of questions and was urged to submit them in writing rather than turning the council session into a cross examination procedure.
The resident was allowed to finish stating his questions after protests from the crowd about allowing him to enter his questions into the record since the meetings are recorded. He agreed to also submit them in writing to ensure council and officials the opportunity to look into them before Thursday's meeting.
Hundreds of residents woke late Friday and early Saturday to flooded basements after a storm that rolled through the area. According to a letter delivered to residents from the city, the pump station lost power from DTE, bumping the pumps offline when they are most needed.
The area affected is considered the inland district of Grosse Pointe Farms and the only portion of the city served by a combined storm water and sewage removal system. The other areas of the city were taken off the combined system in the 1990s, according to council members.
For the residents, this weekend's flooding will mark their second time filing a claim with their insurance carriers since May–the last time the pump station lost all its sources of power and homes flooded. At that time city officials described the events as unlikely to happen again, saying the combination of a 100-year storm and repeated power outages by DTE that cut power to the pump station were responsible.
Claims filed with the city's insurance company were denied because the law guiding such claims requires the claimant to show proof that the city had knowledge or should have known about the problem but did not act to address it.
Among the concerns expressed by residents Monday:
- the city taking responsibility for the problem
- the city taking action to fix the problem
- the city not blaming weather or DTE for the problem
- losing their own homeowners insurance because of the repeated claims
- why the inland district remains the only portion of the city on a combined sewer system
- what steps are being taken now to ensure this will not happen again
- whether an outside organization should be analyzing the work that the current engineering firm is and has been doing
- what is going to be done to compensate or reimburse the residents, many of whom will have cleaned, sanitized and repaired their basements twice
Director of Public Services Terry Brennan told Patch earlier in the day his hope is to be able to provide answers at Thursday's meeting. He recognizes the meeting will likely begin with a pointing-the-finger mentality but he is hopeful the group will be able to move forward and get to what truly matters: How the problem will be fixed.
"They shouldn't be put in this situation," Brennan said. "Residents are justifiably angry."
As of Monday afternoon, the city had received 325 complaints related to basement flooding from this past weekend, Brennan said, noting it was about the same number as reported in May.
Since May, Brennan said more than 1,000 feet of the sewer system has been snaked and inspected but no major problems have been discovered. The Farms system is working as it should, he said.
One issue that was not likely thought to be a regular problem following the May flooding is power. The pump station has two main power sources plus a backup generator, which means if power is cut to both main lines, the pump station should still be able to operate on the generator's power.
The generator was installed as another backup years ago after the pump station went down. Officials felt having three backups was sufficient to address the power concern.
This summer, however, DTE officials have appeared before four of the five Grosse Pointe councils to answer questions about service to the area after repeated outages and brownouts that lasted days. Many also reported losing appliances because of the brownout conditions.
Brennan said the source of power and whether it's sufficient to serve the pump station is among the many questions officials also have. He'll be sending out a notice of claim Tuesday to those residents who have notified the city of flooding in their homes.
In addition to the city council, several city employees will be present on Thursday as well as the Bloomfield Hills engineering firm used by the Farms, Hubble, Roth and Clarke. Brennan said an invitation has been extended to DTE but it was not clear Monday night whether a representative will be attending.
Residents are encouraged to send in their questions now in order to allow city officials the opportunity to research the answer if necessary so answers can actually be given Thursday.
Questions can be submitted by email, by calling city offices at 313-885-6600 or even by dropping a written list off at city hall.
Thanks. We'll email you the next time we update this story.
Susan Shenkosky Vogel
1:35 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Thank you for such an indepth report on the council meeting. We will be sure to send our concerns in writing to city hall before Thursday's meeting, and I hope everyone else does as well.
Char Adams
8:39 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
St. Paul Lutheran Church on Chalfonte was severely damaged for the 2nd time. This was especially diasterous as their annual Rummage Sale is scheduled for this Friday, 9/17/11. They lost thousands of dollars in potential sales.
steve harthorn
7:01 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
So the May claims were denied?? Thanks for the update as we never received anything. Will this be televised so that people attending Back to School Nights (or are homebound) can see this event??
Sara Eaton Martin
10:19 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Steve, The May claims were denied and my understanding is that many residents were represented by an attorney without even necessarily knowing it. The denials, when an attorney was involved, were sent to the attorney. Terry Brennan said this time around any decisions would be sent to both the attorney and resident to prevent confusion and frustration.
Sara
Pete Welch
11:18 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I didn't even receive a response from the city regarding my claim for over $5000. They didn't even acknowledge me. I called several times and was told the claims were still being processed.
Rick
4:23 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I have been pushing Terry Brennan to schedule an alternative meeting due to back to school night. They are "working on it"
Rick
7:05 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Why are some residents on combined drains while others are not. Do the higher risk residents receive a tax break? Did our combined tax dollars go to separate some and not others? That would seem unfair.
Mom
9:27 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Very interesting point. Did we have an opportunity to vote on the sewer separation project? Did citizens have any say? I can't remember. But I do remember that the spate of new municipal buildings (Pier Park warming building, party building, Kerby Field buildings, etc.) were all erected without benefit of a vote and with little citizen input before they just appeared. Each requires very costly maintenance. A family who doesn't skate or throw large parties for many non-residents may have preferred to see that money spent to separate the sewers of our at-risk (of flooding) neighbors.
Pete Welch
11:19 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Conveniently homes closer to the water (having higher property values) south of Ridge Road got a new system which is more gravity fed (from my understanding) but we residents inland are stuck with the old unreliable pump system.
Joseph Longo
2:10 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
According to newspaper accounts, in 2003, Tom Biehl, of the Farms' engineering firm, Hubbel, Roth and Clark, said it would be more cost effective for the Farms to separate the sewers for a lakeside district. Mayor Ronald Kneiser said it would be cheaper for the Farms to keep an unseparated inland district on the Detroit system.
In January 2007, the Farms reached a compromise with state and federal environmental officials in which only four of the seven existing combined sewage overflow outfalls (CSOs) would be bulk-headed, or blocked. Assistant City Manager Matthew Tepper said at the time that there would be a button inside the Farms water filtration plant to open the gates, saying the Farms wants to "make sure basements are not an option" for sewage.
In June 2011, addressing residents' concerns over the May flooding, Biehl said the three outfalls into Lake St. Clair which can release excess water in extreme situations service the lakeside district, and apparently not the inland district.
FarmsResident
7:30 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Very proud of the speakers and those in attendance last night. Have heard that Kerby Field is closed due to sewage backup and that a building at the Pier Park was damage from the same incident. Who is picking up that tab?
Char Adams
8:42 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
All claims of the residents of Champine Pl. were denied by the city from the 1st flood.
Sara Lolar
9:26 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Does anyone know what happened with the civil suit? I know we (Moran) were contacted by an attorney and there was an informational meeting.
I spoke with my home insurance agent AND to an underwriter at my homeowners policy this morning. I was essentially told that by filing TWO claims in less than 3 years, I could expect a 600% surcharge on my policy next renewal. They indicated that less than 1% of their policyholders file two or more claims in 3 years. He indicated they could also opt to non renew the policy. Sooo, we have to eat the cost of this flood or risk losing or insurance (or paying an exorbitant amount).
I would advise *everyone* to check with their insurance companies prior to filing another claim!
Gretchen Schock
10:22 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Forgive me my ignorance, but what, exactly, is a "100-year storm"?
Peter Toenjes
11:07 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/FS-036-98/text/what.html
Char Adams
10:27 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
The attorney is
Laura L. Sheets, Attorney & Counselor
Macuga Liddle & Dubin, P.C.
313.392.0015 fax: 313.392.0025
email: lsheets@mlclassaction.com
LCG
10:45 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I want to know if the systems are combined in some way - was this sewage water or rain water that came up? I've been told both sides by many people.
sue
3:04 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I was flooded in all 3 episodes this summer ( May, July and this past weekend in september) I have been told it was black water but truthfully at this point as disgusting as the thought of sewage coming up my drains is, the fact remains I want NOTHING coming up my drains, clean water or anything else. The damage amounts to the same thing no matter what it is. Wet is wet and it ruins everything.
LCG
6:34 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
All so very true, Susan. So sorry to hear about your repeated floods! What a way to spend your summer. Can't wait for Thursday.
Joseph Longo
10:56 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I emailed these questions to Reeside, Tepper, Brennan, Homminga,Leonard, and Waldmeir:
I have the following questions which I would like addressed at the meeting on Sept 22:
Are the CSOs connected to the sanitary sewers of the lakeside district?
Are they on a push button system? If so, at what time on September 10 were the buttons pushed?
Are the two new variable speed pumps, the high service and low service pumps, adequate? Should they be set at a higher speed?
Can the CSOs be disconnected from the lakeside district sanitary sewers and reconnected to the inland district combined sewers? Would this result in less toxic pollution being discharged into the lake?
Joseph Longo
11:01 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
CSOs - Combined Sewer Overflow Outfalls
Pete Welch
11:22 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
In the Barclay/Lexington neighborhood between Chalfonte and Mack residents are still cleaning up. The emergency services companies are having a field day! 2 big paydays for these guys in 1 year.
Mary McCormick Thuma
11:26 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Will a DTE representative be present at Thursday's meeting?
Will a representative from the city's insurance carrier be at Thursday's meeting to explain why the earlier claims were denied? And whether or not this current event warrants a second review of the first claims?
Were any of the first claims accepted? Or were they all rejected? If some were - what were the distinguishing differences?
Robin Posada
12:01 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Just got off the phone with the City of GPF -- they advised that my claim from the first flood was rejected by the insurance company because the flooding event was an "Act of God." This being the case, I can only assume that all claims have been rejected. I did not receive a letter from the City advising my claim had been rejected because I also signed on to the Class Action Suit with Macuga. Donna from the Building and Service Department at GPF advised that Macuga has my "rejection" letter and I can get it from them.
Mom
11:28 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
As commented above, much of this comes down to decision-making. Who is deciding how our tax dollars will be spent? Big projects in the Farms should be have true cost-benefit analysis and be judged against each other. As much as we would like to have everything, we (that "we" should be Farms citizens) have to make choices and sparing our neighbors from the expense, labor, and frustration of repeated flooding should be at the top of the list.
Patty Blondell
11:33 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Since the city realized there was a power problem with the May flooding and knew this could and would likely occur again and did not fix the problem there is no way they should deny the claims for this flood. If the city's insurance chooses to deny the claims there will probably be a class action law suit and the costs would be far greater than if they had paid the claims. I'm sure all the tax payers will not be happy to pay all the extra attorneys fees and court costs. The city needs to tell the residents on Thursday if it intends to pay these claims or not so we can move forward with what we need to do to cover our losses.
david barthel
12:11 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
it will be interesting if they call this another "Act of God". My basement started flooding really at the onset of the rain. (keep in mind, it wasn't flooding from rainwater. It was flooding from raw sewage coming up through 2 floor drains, a shower drain and a toilet). We ended up with about 2 feet. Everything was ruined for the second time. My point being it wasn't a rain event that caused it, it was a sewer pump failure event. That's not an "Act of God". Also, as soon as the pumps turned back on (i guess around 1am) the sewage was sucked right back down the drains. And if I hear from one more member of city council that they can sympathise because of foundational water where their basements aren't waterproofed, I will lose my mind. The difference between what we are going through and rainwater leaking through an improperly maintained dwelling are night and day.
Char Adams
12:20 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
We've lived in the Farms for 30 years. Our basement never flooded until May 2011. My husband said that at around 1:00 p.m. he was able to dump water in the tub in the basement and it went down quickly whereas before it was not draining. That's because "DTE's bump" must have been resolved! This was no Act of God. I'm sure the city is using Louie Theros' law firm and that's why the residents have been treated so poorly. The class action lawyer is:
Laura L. Sheets
Macuga Liddle & Dubin P.C.
313.392.0015
It's time for a new council and new management in the City of Grosse Pointe Farms, there on Kerby Road. This is disgusting beyond belief.
Susan Shenkosky Vogel
12:58 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
I believe that everyone at 90 Kerby needs to be fired or voted out in the next election. It is almost 1pm on Wednesday, and we still have 10 fans and 2 big dehumidifiers from Serv Pro running in our basement. The humidity was still at 36% yesterday evening when SP came to check on the progress. Hopefully they will be back to remove their equipment this evening...then the adjusting and repair begins.
New Grosse Pointer
4:51 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
I recently moved to McKinley, and I noticed multiple homes on my street with carpet and belongings on the curb. While I am sympathetic to all those with losses in their respective houses, thankfully we were spared. But I am anxious to know if we might not be as lucky next time--where is the inland district?
FarmsResident
8:23 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/29174298/detail.html
Gil Groehn
10:41 am on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
The apparent sewage backup at Kerby Field created a stench on Monday 9-12 that was overwhelming. It was like standing next to an open septic tank. I hope the city has taken samples of the backup water and determines the toxicity level and possible health hazard to kids using the field. I have heard some folks saying it was just grass clippings combined with the water but I find this highly unlikely in view of the distinct stench many of us experienced at the Dog Park adjacent to the field.
James Gerardi
1:38 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Underlying any chronic infrastructure problem is a managerial problem. It's not "blaming" or "finger-pointing" to assess where the buck stops and who may have to be replaced; it's the necessary thing when human error causes severe loss...repeatedly. At Thursday's meeting, the discussion should not focus solely on the mechanics of the backup, but on accountability for it, as well.
sue
2:25 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
James, not sure I entirely agree. I think the time tomorrow evening would be best spent hearing/learning from the powers that be what has gone wrong and what is being or will be done to correct the problem and ideally a timeline for this. The post mortem on accountability, who is responsible and the consequences they should suffer could possibly wait until after the immediate crisis is resolved. Just my thoughts.
James Gerardi
3:41 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
I understand your point and agree that what went wrong and what is being done to correct the problem should be the main focus. But if citizens don't insist on accountability -- expecting or hoping that it will just happen after the fact -- it won't. Someone needs to own this. It was not a hundred-year storm or an earthquake. It was a failure of a system run by people. That doesn't necessarily mean an individual should be fired. But if this happened because someone didn't follow a procedure, was asleep at the switch, used poor judgment, or ignored the weather, then the "who" of this is definitely part of the "what," like driver error in a car accident.
Char Adams
4:24 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
I agree with Mr. Gerardi. Someone has to "own" this. We need to get the immediate situation corrected and then we, the community, need to look foward to election day to see what else can be done along the lines of getting new leadership into office and possibly a new management team in our city.
Sara Lolar
6:42 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
It was just raining really hard. I went into the basement and stared at my drains for the duration. It also crossed my mind to call City Hall to make sure they turned on the pump.
sue
6:55 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Sara: like you I just went to my basement dreading what I might find! I am terrified that I will wake up to another nightmare in the morning and I have used up all my home insurance flood claims for my policy so I'm on my own if it happens again!! What a way to live, in absolute fear! This had better get sorted out and fast!!
FarmsResident
7:08 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Sara & Susan, same thing! My kids asked if we were going to have water again. Stressed out!