Being old I remember things from long ago. I remember when a teacher convicted of murder was eventually paroled and the teacher's union sued for him to get his teaching position back. It was then that I realized that the union was not interested in the children just the dues of its members. Count me as a no vote

Prop 2 is nothing more then an end run around the emergency manager law, because teachers don't like paying towards their health care like everyone else, and refused to negoitatate and sacrificed their fellow custodians, cafeteria workers & bus drivers jobs. VOTE YES ON PROP 1 TO SAVE THE EFM LAW VOTE NO ON PROP 2 THRU 6 THEY ARE ALL BAD FOR MICH

Barbara: The Mackinac Center scholars recommend labor law revisions including making Michigan a right-to-work state. So this link is bias and leans toward the right. This organization is supported by the likes of the Koch Charitable Foundation, Devos (Amway) Foundation, Van Adel (Amway) Foundation and the Walton (Walmart) Family Foundation, all Right Wing “right to lowers wage” propaganda hounds! It is in their best interest to put a negative spin on this legislation, including outrageous estimates on what it will cost.

Why is it so hard for some to understand that collective bargaining is simply two parties negotiating with each other and coming to a mutual agreement. In Michigan in case there is no agreement, it is MANAGEMENT that can implement its best last offer. No laws can be 'vetoed". This is more than an equitable arrangement for management. Once again.... BOTH parties must agree or management can implement its last offer. Why is this so terrifying to state Republicans? Once again for those who still do not understand it... in collective bargaining BOTH parties come to an agreement. Sigh.

The Mackinac Center is a right wing think tank, not the best place to get an unbiased in depth analysis.

The Mackinac Center is simply another arm of the Republican party and as an independent who is part of the 47%, or the 99% whichever way they want to label me I choose to find a more unbiased and accurate assessment of the proposition.

Will someone please explain and show me where the Mackinac Center is not truthful. All I here is "right winged" "republican" and such, but if what they are saying is remotely truthful Proposal 2 needs to be rejected by taxpayers.
prop 2 will benefit 18% of workers in Michigan at the expense of 100% of the taxpayers..... simple as that, no one can deny this claim, no one can dispute it. If you're in the 18%, of course you want Prop 2 to pass but if you're a taxpayer you have to vote "NO".

Matt Guarnieri - Basically the Mackinac Center is a "soft power" (propaganda outlet) for the Michigan Chamber of Commerce, the Insurance Industry, and the anything goes branch of the GOP leadership who also indulge in taking in huge sums from certain special interests. They have an enormous budget, but won't disclose who funds them. They have professional writers that write pseudo scholarly pieces that invariably favor so-called "conservative" causes. They maintain that they are unbiased to preserve their non-profit status. However, when it comes to gambling interests, or other vice industries, they spin on a dime (or millions of dollars) to support that interest. When you corner them, they ultimately admit that BOTH parties, GOP and DEM have cause the so-called problems which are rooted decades ago. Don't get me wrong, they make convincing arguments, all dolled up with facts, figures, pie charts, graphs, and graphics, but they are no different than any other propaganda arm. They NEVER come down on the side of the environment, workers, or worker safety. What does that tell you? They are intellectual street walkers, and sell their talents to the highest bidder, and won't allow the public to see who those bidders are.

Well, they certainly won't be able to write laws that turn us into a right to work state if this passes, which I bleieve is the point....

Union brothers and sisters unite. contact everyone you know and get them out to vote yes for Proposal 2. Not only must we repel all efforts to a "right to work" state we need to remove this current Governor and remove the republican house members. Vote a straight democratic ticket, reelect President Obama, vote yes on proposal 2 and remove all republicans from office. Seniors do not forget what this turd Governor did in taxing your pensions.

Jim I find no problem with paying tax on a pension. You either were given that Pension thru negotiations and thus free, or you had tax deferred it. (don't tell me you worked for it, we all got paid wages for the work we did, but you never paid tax on it when you earned it) So basiclly you are saying becasue you are a senior you should not pay tax on earned wages over time? Interesting concept. Just where is Greece and Spain.

Absolutely untrue! Check where teachers get their retirement. It is not in their contracts rather it is MIP is most cases which places it with the state. The retirement program is state run and not subject to collective bargaining. It's really too bad that our political system is flooded with groups lying on both sides of an issue instead of just getting the information out there for voters to make up their own minds.

Jim, if the Republican legislature would fund schools properly and fund pensions properly, the schools would not be in financial disarray...$1.8 BILLION stolen from the school aid fund last year to give tax breaks to businesses.

The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory* tragedy happened in 1911, more than 100 years ago. This is the problem with the pro-union crowd, you don't understand that most people support the work done sooooo many years ago to provide a safe workplace, and fair wages, and to prevent child labor...but now all the unions are fighting for is EXCESSIVE wages and benefits to the detriment of everyone else in society. You can't argue that a 5th grade teach with 7 years of experience who makes 100k and can NEVER be fired is mistreated.

*At least get the name right, google is too easy to use.

To Christopher: I am a high school teacher with 12 years of experience at the same school in the same position, a masters degree, and I teach only AP classes. I made $55,000 last year AND I teach in a supposedly "rich" district in Oakland County. Your embellishment is disgusting to all of us who actually teach and actually do NOT make $100,000 a year ever. In fact, not a single person in my building of 120 teachers makes over $85,000...including people who have been there 30 years. The only people who make that money are administrators.

Well said, Duke!

Jane Doe - My apologies, I should have said $85k for 9 months of work, well minus all the holidays and vacation you get, so maybe 7.5 months?

Hi Chris....
Allow me to explain the job of teaching to you, so you can better understand the "9 months of work" thing. An analogy: Do you also ask why professional athletes are paid millions of dollars to only work part of the year or do you respect the fact that they need an offseason to recharge and rest? No one begrudges them for working a partial year because we appreciate the pace at which they conduct their jobs during the season.
So, what does this have to do with teaching? Here's my average day: Up at 5:00am, leave at 5:45, arrive work at 6:30am. Class starts at 7:10 and I teach until 10:40am. I have prep and lunch until 12:15. Then I teach from 12:15-2:00. I usually leave work between 3:30 and 4:30pm. 9-10 hour days are the norm. Sounds easy, right?
Allow me to explain what I mean by "teaching:" I am actively performing for an audience of 35. And that is for 5 total hours a day. This includes lecturing, walking around monitoring activities, answering questions, demonstrating, facilitating, handing out papers, collecting papers, moving desks, moving equipment, and so forth. My prep hour is when I get the opportunity to do what most professionals do all day: sit at a desk....I do paperwork, make phone calls, make copies, grade papers, create lessons, attend meetings, etc...
I am "performing" for more hours a week than the lead in a Broadway musical!
To Be Continued...

(Cont..) After I get home between 4:00-5:00, its more lesson planning and grading papers. I teach AP History classes with 150 total students, so that's a lot of essays to take home...often. Finally, some days I'll read articles and chapters of related history text to brush up on content, etc... Then I'm asleep by 11:00pm...well, I try to sleep amidst my students messaging me questions about their homework. I'm available to my kids 24/7 because it makes for a more efficient class. I'd rather a student message me at 10pm about the homework than to have them not do it at all.
My job does NOT start at 7:10am with the first bell and it does not end with the last bell at 2:00. I do not have a punch clock at my work. My job starts the day after labor day and it is a sprint, not a marathon. We race until May (AP EXAM) and "cool down" until June 15th. My offseason is from June 15th until September 1st.
And just like a pro athlete, I do not sit on a couch eating chips during my offseason...I attend workshops, conferences, read new textbooks, organize my lessons, create new lectures, and generally try to make next year better than the last.
Oh, and I field questions from next year's AP kids, because they already know how to contact me about their summer homework :-)
If you don't respect the need for an offseason, please join me for two consecutive days at my job. You can do what I do for two days and then we'll talk.

Chris.... oh, and I still only make $55,000 a year. At least half of our teaching staff in our school district makes under $50,000, FYI.

Jane - public information shows me that 35+ teachers in our district make over $100k/yr, with top TEACHER over $135k PLUS MASSIVE BENEFITS AND PENSION. Principals and Admins make even more, up to a quarter million.
Christopher - it's 183 days, isn't it? I don't remember so many 'vacations' as a kid, nor In Service days... 1+/month? Every time we turn around, another week off!
Jane - I have no respect for the stupid money spent on entertainment (athletes). Whats this about 'deserving' an offseason? I'm going to discuss this with my boss in a high stress job. And for what its worth, you should probably be making more after 12 years if you do a good job... but not $135k IMO.

I actually think they have, at least to some degree. I think those who already have lifetime benefits get to keep them, but I think new state elected officials have to work much longer and pay much more for their benefits.

Don't get me wrong, it's still too much for a part time job, but to say that others aren't seeing the same changes just isn't true.

You're right. The unions appeared decades ago when laws were not around to regulate working conditions as a whole.

They are in place now.

The union no longer serves a purpose other than to strike if they don't get what they want (very, very similar to a child throwing a temper tantrum when they don't get what they want).

Legacy costs to taxpayers via pensions and over inflated salaries do not fit today's economics.

You can argue that all you want, but we are in dire financial straights.
A union will tell you all you want to hear, then use your money to fund the rank and file political preferences.

Seen that time and time again via city employees, skilled trades....and others.

@ DJG
"The union no longer serves a purpose other than to strike if they don't get what they want (very, very similar to a child throwing a temper tantrum when they don't get what they want)."

EXACTLY!!! That is the best explanation I have heard!!!! Can't agree more!

To Peter: Back to the point of the article, Prop 2 does NOT give teachers or any other public employee in a union the right to strike.

I repeat: Prop 2 does NOT give unions the right to strike. It is illegal. That cannot be changed.

@DJG - that's right, the laws are so well enforced in these matters, aren't they? Just like the laws governing the safety of our food and medicine - we NEVER see outbreaks of meningitis or salmonella...oh, wait....

DJG:

"The unions appeared decades ago when laws were not around to regulate working conditions as a whole.

They are in place now.

The union no longer serves a purpose other than to strike if they don't get what they want (very, very similar to a child throwing a temper tantrum when they don't get what they want)."

So ... who will fight to keep these reasonable working conditions in place once unions are gone? You?

Thomas: Unions: If I remember right, actually started back in the Feudal system, with what they called Guilds, to represent the importance of the different type of work done for the KING.............. I am not an alarmist, but my grand kids will see either Unions return, or a rebellion , which happens when there is no middle class...... I won't be around,..... but mark my words...... I made more in the 80's and 90's then the young families on my block is now.........

Well put, Flash. Voters should ignore any of the supposed benefits or drawback of the proposals intent and vote no simply because it doesn't belong in the state's constitution.

Bravo!!

Constitution of Michigan has been changed 34 times since its overhaul in 1963...and 69 times between 1908 and 1962.
Don't confuse it with the U.S. Constitution, where it is very rare to amend at all.

This is not for one special interest group - this is for every worker and potential worker in the state. It's not a big deal to change the state constitution, although many would like you to think that. The last major changes were in the 1960's, although there have been changes made since.

Well, FLASH, you will never be able to vote for a change to the Federal Constitution unless you are a member of a state legislature.

The Constitution can only be amended by the approval of 2/3rds of the state legislatures or 2/3rds can call for a constitutional convention.

Tiger fan
Unions bankrupt GM and Chrysler....look who's crying now. The definition of unions is greed. More wages, more health care, more dental, more retirement......I'm sure there's more of something else but you get the picture. Anit union, you bet I am

Very clear and well said Steven S

Duke, it misses the point. Laws for special interest groups do NOT belong in a state constitution. Period. If you think this law is a good one, then elect folks that will pass it into law and be able to improve it or fix it without having to wait for a state referendum.

The constitution is not the place to grind political axes. Vote no!

Protecting free association, the right for two parties to negotiate and write a contract, and to have that contract enforced is not a law for a special interest group, it's a necessary part of living in a free society and a functioning market economy, and as such, it most certainly belongs in the constitution.

What are you going to say next, Thomas? That freedom of assembly is too cumbersome because it requires the government to close off streets and provide police protection, all to protect special interest groups? Let's just trust the legislature or congress to protect that right! That's the natural conclusion to be made given on your position that free association and negotiations should be regulated and restricted by the government.

Where were the arguments against enshrining these type of items in the constitution when the anti-gay marriage law was placed there a few years ago? I wasn't going to vote for this but the arguments being placed against it are so over the top I am now undecided.

Come on Tom: This is the American way; special interests are able to buy whatever they want in our society, including our government (Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission). So in order to protect our rights to have a voice these measures are necessary and justified!

Steven, this isn't about free association. Free association is an individual right. This proposal is about a collective right--the right of a corporate entity (the union) to have a constitutionally protected position against other corporations (public sector).

The intellectual non-sequitur here would be those that believe Citizens United was a bad decision, but that this proposal is a good one.

Thomas, this is absolutely about the right to free association. Individuals have a right to come together to form an organization that serves their interest, and that organization has a right to negotiate with private and public entities.

You seem to think collective bargaining gives unions special rights that employers lack. You need to do a little more research.

Thomas, you really lost me with that comparison...

@Gagne. Free association under the First Amendment belongs to individuals and groups. Otherwise it would not make sense and 200+ years of supreme court decisions are meaningless.

Pam, Excellent point on same sex marriage! To me it is a basic question of rights. I know that all people should have equal rights. Not supporting collective bargaining gives too much power to goverment and the few.

There is no way that a business worthy of its employees would run from Michigan if this proposal passes. Do you have any facts that could back up that statement?

Businesses locate for one thing and one thing alone: an educated work force. All the tax breaks and legislation in the world won't bring them here when we have destroyed our public education system.

Hey Art, my union president doesn't make any money. She has 400 teachers under her and makes the same teacher's salary as everyone else.

This proposal is in response to the state's flurry of harmful legislation passed often late at night or with very little notice. These laws have one purpose: to undermine unions altogether in the state with the purpose of reducing state spending. Reduction of state spending sounds good, doesn't it? Sure, unless you realize why. Its to give incredible tax incentives to corporations (shock - for the benefit of upper management, NOT employees!!). Another newsflash- DeVos doesn't care if you have a job, if you're sick, homeless, or dead. He wants money...more and more and more money. And then more. In fact, that is the sole goal of all corporations = to increase profits. The goal of a corporation is never to help people. So if you want corporations to be in control, have all the benefits and advantages reaped from the state, and then pay our teachers, police and firefighters minimum wage, so be it. But be honest about it.

"The article barely scratches the surface. Voters should make an informed vote on this issue, or leave it blank. This amendment benefits unions, but not the union members, and it's bad for business."

Talk about being uninformed and barely scratching the surface!!! Thanks for the opinion totally lacking in any evidence or fact whatsoever.

This doesn't just protect the rights of unions, it protects the rights of private businesses whose rights would be severely restricted if Michigan were to pass a right-to-work law.

its Prop 4 I am not sure about. Are home health caregivers unionized now? Are they talking about groups like Visiting Nurses? Is this covered by insurance? If yes, does the caregiver live at the house? Is this only for seniors? Where is there more info?

The States if North Dakota AND S. Dakota will soon be off COAL, Totally on Renewable (wind) only.......... with gas back up if needed.
I see it as 1 no and 5 yes's ........... you only have a dead lock, when no one is listening. ......... so let there be.

should be coal / gas back up, in the populated area, there is 2 or 3 per state....... they have quietly built their wind farms, and areas are on line all ready.......... why doesn't Patch give you the ability to edit your own slip ups?

Haulin: Ever been to the Dakotas? Windiest places on Earth! (Not literally, of course) You can barely stand up without being knocked over by the wind.

Having said that, I understand that Michigan has good wind power potential, but the best is on the coasts...and no one wants windmills blocking their lakeside view! I'm not saying its a bad idea to have wind-driven power, but we don't have North Dakota's wind + wide-open unpopulated spaces.

I under stand the wind in the Dakotas, we have wind potential, along with wind in the lakes, the currents in our big Rivers that is a constant, are being tested now, God put us down here to be smart and fruitful we have done one so far, so cause of scenery we rather burn coal? Canada has closed down 2 energy plants, that were coal burners..

Didn't we just see 3 more Green Energy venues go belly up right here in Michigan today? Yeah I don't think I'll be investing there thank you very much!

Great Lakes Coal Trade, coal loading's are down 28 % the first 3 quart's, compared to the 5 yr avg. does that show less use of coal, Canada has closed or in process of closing two, power plants, and Minn. and wisc. (?) is also weaning off, as they bring other sources on line, it does start showing up. Can't burn just to burn, The last time you came back this way from the U P, see those two Wind Generators, they have up there, cut big percentages off bills, (i use to know, but as soon as I say ???? some one will oh no it was this.....

wasn't for European third world and China, Coal Hauling on the Great lakes, and sea way, would be jus very low,..... to make STEEL, ( needs coal, iron ore, and stone, to make steel.) that bit of info, comes from the Lakes carrier assc. that uses "to yearly date", and 5 yr avg, and also 10 yr avg, to help others gather whats going on. ...........

Green energy is a joke? Have you noticed the climate change here over the last couple of years? 25 more years and our weather will be like southern Missouri's. Most climate scientists say we are right at the point of no return. If our planet is to be saved, green energy is the only way to do it. Good grief. Your attitude is beyond scary.

Nice Acroporless. 2-6 have no business as constitutional items. If desired, they should be laws.

I care about the sanctity of our Constitution and I equally care about my neighbor; but I also care about the ability to pay for exorbitant fringe benefits that we as tax payers can't do in anymore. We are a broke nation and people are suffering. People have lost jobs, taken pay cuts, lost health insurance etc. but these unions fight for our tax dollars to cover the cost of everything. It has to stop at some point. Imbedding the Unions in places they didn't exist before isn't a good idea when we can't handle what they are asking of us now.

Karen,

Seriously, I don't think you really know what an average governmental union member gets in salary and benefits.

I do know that I don't want a school teacher teaching my kids making $32,000 a year. I'm willing to pay more because its IMPORTANT for my kids.

Karen, if we're 'broke' how did we afford to give $1.8 billion in tax cuts to businesses? It's a myth that we are broke. The School Aid fund had a freaking SURPLUS! And yet it was taken from the purpose for which it was intended and given away to businesses without any strings attached at all. They don't have to hire a single person to get the nice tax break. If we've lost jobs, that could be why!

Karen, no one factors in their benefits when asked how much money they earn. You're just trying to throw up an empty argument.

You're right Brad...they do!!! You know why...because we are breeding an entitlement society!

Hey Karen! Get off our roads, stop using the police and fire department, stop sending your kids to school, don't use any airports ... because these apparently are all "entitlements."

I used to succumb to the Republican guilt factory - that as a public employee I was overpaid and had too-generous benefits. Then my two kids graduated from college last year and started at the salary it took my 10 years and a Master's to achieve - AND they have great benefits. So this "no one else has it" whining has to stop. IT'S AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH - the private sector IS PAYING benefits and good salaries to educated professionals. Don't expect your teachers to work for free...you'll get what you pay for.

I work in the auto industry. Why are you talking about entitlements? I am simply saying that the job market for many college educated professional pays over $55k. Are you saying that someone making $55k is rich? Shouldn't we be paying the people who are teaching our kids a decent wage?

@Jane Doe

I beg your pardon...in 2004 I was not aware of this vote and would have voted against it...don't pretend to know my convictions just because I don't agree with bargaining rights.

Those people with equally important jobs that make even less (yeah right) are not teaching my kids. Show me the numbers for these supposed crazy benefits when the base pay is $32,000 a year?

You know, who cares? Teachers are NOT killing the economy, it was the greed of Wall Street, the Kochs, Waltons, Petersons, Romneys, Adlesons, ... May they have luck getting through the eye of the needle.

Johnny Q, a lot of it came from Taxing your mom and dads, and Grand parents Pensions, wait till you retire and see you have to pay with your only means of income..... I am not talking about 60 - 70 k threshold, add your S S to it, you get 18,000 tax free .......... any thing you take out is taxed, it's not all a life of riley, it has to last till ...............

Karen - please be advised that I work much more than 9 months a year - with the state changing their curriculum standards yearly and my district changing their programs yearly, I am spending a good chunk of my summer researching best pracrtices and effective teaching methods. I am also required to continue my education and must get a certain amount of college credits every six years in order to renew my certificate. I go to professional developments monthly and even choose to pay for the ones not covered by my district out of my own pocket. When I am sick for a day, I have to make sure that plans are written out so precisely for the non-teacher that will be in charge of my students that my plans are often times three pages long. How about you? When you're out sick do you write a plan of action for the person covering your desk? I also get to spend my money buying books for all reading levels, buying snacks for my students that don't have enough food at home, clothes so they don't get teased, and cry when I find out that a student gets hit for not being fast enough in the morning. Please tell me when the last time was that you dealt with any of these issues at your workplace every day!! How dare you tell me that I'm greedy for putting my students first every day and actually expecting appropriate compensation for it. I love what I do, but I would love it more if fewer people who are not trained in my profession stopped telling how and why to do my job!

Well, Panny Lane, you might want to mention that teachers work far longer than 40 hours a week. A test for 30 students can take five to ten hours to grade...

So then you should vote "yes" on proposal 4 - Problem solved. No more home care workers making minimum wage.

Thank you Penny for doing what you do. I know several teachers that do all you listed and I believe they are priceless.

Bill, Michigan is a right to work State, which means you don't have a leg to stand on, unless it is about sexism, religious, or racial........ any thing else, means by by, if work is slow and you disagreed on some thing 2 yr's ago, unless you have a union

The "shared sacrifice" Snyder asked for in his inaugural speech apparently applies only to workers and retirees.

Haulin T Male. Michigan is NOT a right to work State.

Bill, you're missing the dozens of pieces of legislation that were rushed through our state legislative system by ALEC and Mackinac Center in the last 18 months - legislation that has GUTTED teachers' rights to bargain for things like class size and number of preps. Do you want your kids in physics or calculus classes of 40, being taught by a teacher who has to prepare for five different subjects each day?

Then where are all the jobs? The Bush tax cuts were suppose to create millions of jobs, where are those?

obama's race to the top required a bid to contract out all non essential school employees, & granholm signed the law making school custodians, cafeteria workers & bus drivers non essesential so there contract could be nulified & their jobs contracted out, All schools are faced with declining enrollment so when teachers refused any concessions they put their fellow custodians, cafeteria workers & bus drivers on the chopping block & looked the other way as all these people lost their union job. Now they want us to pass prop 2 so they won't have to pay twoards their health insurance like everyone else, DON'T BE FOOLED PROP2 IS AN END RUN AROUND THE EMERGENCY MANAGER LAW!!
vote yes on prop 1 to keep the EFM law vote NO on prop 2 thru 6 they are all bad for michigan

You have no grasp of history.

no grasp of history ? at 89 I have no grasp of history....... ha ha aha aha

Unfortunatley the Representatives are not doing there jobs,they are not working for the good of ALL people.

State police have rights built into the Constitution, don't they? Article 6, section 5, since 1963. Nobody complains about that uinion, nor should they. Let the rest of the unions have the right to bargain built into the constitution as well, especially if politicians have decided they suddenly know better than employers and their union workers.

Try to get the Chamber of Commerce to show you theirs.

Unions aren't mandatory.

Individuals do, on the other hand, have a right to freely associate and form an organization that serves their interests which can negotiate an employment contract with that employer. The organization and the employer can chose to include union membership as a condition of employment. What gives the government the right to tell employers and employee representatives what can and can't be included in a contract? Do you really want the government involving itself in things it has no business involving itself in?

So?

What about all the money that CEO's have made.

Penny,

I don't need to know how much you make, or believe you don't earn your pay, but what percent of the cost of your health benefits do you pay, and what percent of their pensions do retired teachers pay in taxes to the state? What percent of your income goes towards your pension?

At least 3% of every paycheck goes toward retirement. Some are paying 6%.

What of the UNLIMITED pay and benefits to the politicians! I dont see politicians taking pay cuts or ending their benefits.

Wouldn't Prop 2 add another layer of government control over a persons right to work? This appears to be the 18% of unionized workers trying to tell the other 82% of taxpayers how to live.

Well Matt, how?

Matt can't come up with a response because Proposal 2 takes authority away from the government and puts it in the hands of individuals.

Steven S.... No... prop 2 takes choice away from 82% of taxpayers and gives power to 18% of the workers in Michigan who happen to be unionized.
Real Choice is is what "right to work" would give people. Power is the right to decide your destiny not let the 18% take it from you.
I want my children to have jobs in Michigan when they grow up, not have to move to another state to work. prop 2 will just force more employers and jobs to other states.

Matt- right to work takes away the rights of individuals and employers to decide what can be included in their employment contract. It's undue government interference in private matters. If you don't like unions, don't join one, but don't take away the rights of individuals and businesses.

Most of the people I know, in right to work states out west, would give anything to find a job elsewhere where unions negotiate with employers. Working conditions and salaries are abismal in RTW states, and benefits sparce. Complain and be fired. People don't understand, and will not, until it's probably too late.

A review of the amendment history of the 1963 Michigan Constitution leads to several conclusions:
A common theme of amendments, especially since 1992, has been that of weakening the legislature. The citizens do not trust the legislature!
The Constitution has been amended many, many times. Before the 1908 Constitution was rewritten entirely in 1963, it was amended 69 times. Since our “new” Constitution was adopted in 1963, Michigan citizens have amended it 31 times.
Amendments to the Constitution have covered diverse issues and many subject areas, including:
Article I; Section 27. (2008) Legalizing human embryonic stem cell research.
Article I; Section 26. (2006) Prohibiting discrimination against, or granting preferential treatment to any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity.
Article I; Section 25. (2004) Recognizing the union of one man and one woman in marriage.
Article IV; Section 41. (1972;2004) Establishing lotteries; requiring new casinos to be approved by citizen vote.
Article IX; Section 35. (1984) Establishing the Natural Resources Trust Fund
I don’t think we are asking too much in limiting the legislative powers/agenda by continuing to propose changes to the constitution that will further limit the legislature. Most of the past amendments started as somebody's wants!

Unless you want to prohibit gays from marrying or joining civil unions, right? In which case, OMG - Change the constitution!!

You seem to have a lot of faith in the government's ability and desire to take care of you.

Personally, I think I'm much more capable to take care of myself and protect myself than the government, which is why I support Proposal 2. If you don't like unions, don't join one, it's that simple.

Frank,
Kafka's "The Trial" come immediately to mind.
RLB III

James , exactly right. The spending of union workers helps build the whole Metropoltian area.

Agreed. The middle class exists thanks to unions. The unions BUILT the middle class. Stripping the union's rights to bargain (that's all it is asking for, a chance to bargain), isn't going to help the middle class in any way shape or form. On the contrary, you'll simply bring down everyone's salaries and benefits, even manager's. People don't understand the connection between union worker's salaries and benefits, and upper-level management's.

Karen

There's nothing wrong with aspirations for that. I would like to be there too. But I will, no matter what always remember where I came from. People died for worker's rights.

The top 1% are evil.

Yeah, everyone should be in the 1% :/

St. Timothy was right, the love of money is the root of all evil.

Karen - If this state is so broke, how did Snyder manage to put together a $1.8 billion tax cut for businesses? He's going to follow that up with another huge tax cut for businesses after the election. Snyder cut funding for schools and local communities and raised taxes on those with pensions and people working minimum wage jobs. You're picking sides and the side you are supporting wants us all to work for the least amount of money with no benefits.

Lets see if I want to be like any of these people:

Charles Koch
David Koch
Christy Walton
Jim Walton
Alice Walton
Robson Walton
Sheldon Adelson
Len Blavatnik
Richard DeVos

No.

I don't have a union job and make good money. I just care about other people who should have rights and should be protected from assholes like the republicans in Michigan congress and Snyder, who is a complete asshole.

Karen,
Here is another phrase I learned in college: Ad Hominem

Your anger and ignorance are showing through....starts to invalidate your argument. Dirty, greedy hands is just a phrase to incense people's anger at...what? Darn all those middle-class professionals that work hard and want fair wages and benefits? You actually believe that police, teachers, and nurses are spoiled? You think any yo-yo could come and do what they do? C'mon, get real.

Brenda, Very well said.

We are talking about a proposal for Michigan. Michigan teachers cannot strike--it's against the law. This isn't about Wisconsin.

Not the Battle Creek Enquirer, too!! ;-)